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Back before there was Caliphate or Slow Burn or many of the podcasts you probably have downloaded right now, there was Serial, the investigative serialized podcast from Sarah Koenig and Julie Snyder. Narrated by Koenig, Serial became the first mega-hit in the podcast world (it's been downloaded more than 340 million times) and was the first podcast ever to win a Peabody Award. The first season gripped audiences with the case of Adnan Syed; the second was a look into the court-martial of Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl.

Now, Serial is officially back with its third season, and this time they're tackling the less 'flashy' side of the criminal justice system. Koenig, along with her co-reporter Emmanuel Dzotsi, spent more than a year inside Cleveland's criminal courts, learning the ins and outs of cases. The first two episodes will drop on September 20, with new episodes released each Thursday after that (though you can listen to a trailer right now). Below, Koenig talks to ELLE.com about the inspiration behind this year's season, what it's like to be podcast famous, and the instrumental partnership that makes Serial what it is.

How did you decide on this topic for season 3?

Sarah Koenig: I have to rewind my head like, 'What were we thinking?' One answer is that… we did season 1 and it was about this case and, in some ways, it was a story about: Did this person do this or did they not? A more interesting question to me was: What is this trial and what does it mean and how is our system working? And what we realized kind of at the end was, I think it’s hard to say based on one case, and especially one case that’s not your typical [case]. [Syed] wasn’t the usual kind of defendant that you see. He has no criminal record. He has this private attorney. This kid goes to trial and has, not one, but two trials, and they last a long time. And none of that is what’s really happening in our system, all day long in our courthouses.

Julie [Snyder], my partner, had read this book by Steve Bogira called Courtroom 302. He spends a year inside a courtroom in Chicago. We all read it, and we were like, 'It’d be cool if we could do something like that for radio.' So that’s kind of what we set out to do. Let’s see if we can get our arms around the system in a bigger way, by looking at smaller, less flashy cases, more the day-to-day grind of the courts. What would we learn?

Emmanuel Dzotsi and Sarah Koenig

It sounds like you'll be telling many stories within the court, as opposed to one longer story.

Right, it is not one single case.

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Is the format going to be the same as before? How does it differ from past seasons?

I guess it is different in that, if you’re a purist in terms of what a serial actually is, this is not a pure serial. It’s not one story that’s continuing over time. But in every other way, I think you’re going to recognize that it’s Serial. Also, some of the stories do last more than one episode.. so people do come back and their cases come back, but they’re not so tightly linked. There’s one episode that’s about this one judge and what his courtroom is like, and there’s another episode that’s inside the prosecutor’s office. Other ones are more about the actual criminal, a specific criminal case. It’s a mix of things, which was hard, because we didn’t know what we were looking for. When we went, we were like, 'I’m just going to sit here and wander around and listen and see what I see,' which you think would be like, 'Oh that’s so freeing, so much liberty,' but it was terrifying because you’re like, 'I don’t know what my story is. What’s my story? What is this, what is this, what is this?' So it took us a while to figure out what we were doing. Then all of the sudden, it just sort of clicked in.

I read that you once said people might not like season 2 as much as season 1. Do you think people will like season 3?

[Laughs] I don’t think I said people wouldn’t like season 2. Season 2 has a piece of my heart. Nissan maxima 07 manual lawn. Season 3 is very close to my heart. The stories are really good, and we’re really excited to tell them to people. Then again… if you’re looking for a murder mystery, this is not it.

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At the end of the day, you can’t worry about it because it’ll make you nuts. You’re either going to do the stories you want to do or you’re going to do the thing you know will be some sort of pop culture sensation. I suppose if you hit gold then both of those come together, but whatever. We don’t worry about it because you can’t.

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I really want to ask about your partnership with Julie. I love seeing two women dominate in this arena. What is that like for you? What does she help bring out?

Serial doesn’t exist without Julie. I honestly think that she’s the best radio editor in the world. Her talent is so strong and so specific that it’s hard for me to actually articulate. She’s the one who we’re sort of dumping all of our reporting back at as it’s happening. She’s the one that’s processing all of that information. And then at the end, we all come together, and she’s the one—we’re all doing it—but she’s the one that’s like, 'Wait. I see it. I see what this could be,' in a way that none of the rest of us are quite capable of doing. She just has an extraordinary narrative talent. I definitely can’t do what I do without Julie. I don’t know if she feels the same way about me. Honestly, I don’t think she does because she can do her thing with anybody, but I can’t do my thing with anybody else.

So, what’s it been like to be Sarah Koenig in the last couple of years?

Busy in a good way, in a way entirely of my own choosing, especially the last couple of years because I was going back and forth to Cleveland. I have two kids, who are not babies or anything, but I like to be home with my kids. I think, like many busy, working people, that was a constant push-pull. I know this is the most boring answer I could possibly give, but it’s real. My life is a constant family, work, family, work, family, work and trying to figure that out. And it’s not easy. I have a very understanding family. If [the question is] whether or not it’s glamorous, the answer is no. [Laughs]. Not at all.

So the life of a big time podcaster isn’t all limousines and…

No, no. Very grubby. [Laughs]

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.

MY SISTER, THE SERIAL KILLER
By Oyinkan Braithwaite
226 pp. Doubleday. $22.95.

Korede knows that bleach masks the smell of blood, that the cabinet under the kitchen sink should be “filled with everything required to tackle dirt and grease” and that scrubbing helps her think. Korede is an ace cleaner. Which is good, because by the time her younger sister, Ayoola, calls her for the third time to say, “Korede, I killed him,” someone is going to have to roll up her sleeves. Again.

Korede and Ayoola have grown up in Lagos, a city that is bulging with people streaming in from the countryside in search of jobs. The policemen are as corrupt as the politicians, and everyone seems to be on the make. Ayoola is gorgeous. “Hers is the body of a music video vixen,” writes Korede, the troubled narrator of “My Sister, the Serial Killer,” a surprising debut novel by a young Nigerian writer, Oyinkan Braithwaite, that has been picked up by publishers on both sides of the Atlantic. “Ayoola’s skin is a color that sits comfortably between cream and caramel and I am the color of a Brazil nut, before it is peeled; she is made wholly of curves and I am composed only of hard edges.”

“My Sister, the Serial Killer” is less a murder mystery — it devotes little attention to why Ayoola is killing her boyfriends, other than that she seems to find it remarkably easy to do thanks to a sharp knife she stole from her father — and more a study in the strange complexity of sibling bonds. Ayoola is a tease. Korede, the head nurse at St. Peter’s Hospital, is a dab hand with the multi-surface cleaner and the rubber gloves. Despite their differences, Ayoola and Korede are allies and codependents — sisters-in-arms in the fight to survive in a city that strives to suffocate women at every turn.

Before his untimely death (it may or may not have been an accident), Ayoola and Korede’s father was a master of the dodgy deal, selling refurbished cars to a dealership as brand-new and building his smart new ranch house on the proceeds. He beats his daughters, tries to pimp them out to important friends and colleagues and brings home his mistress despite his wife also being there at the time. When she screams, he looks at her with indifference. “If you don’t shut up now, I will deal with you.” The girls’ mother reaches for the Ambien.

Dvshade Easy Looks Serial Season 3

Braithwaite writes in a rat-a-tat style that forces the plot along at a clip. Short chapters headed “Bleach,” “Body,” “Scrubs,” “Heat,” “Questions” follow one another in a taut rhythm like that of a drumbeat. A lazier writer would have left it at that. But Braithwaite’s tale takes a darker turn when Ayoola tips her cap at the very man Korede herself is secretly in love with, the warmhearted Dr. Tade Otumu, who keeps a bowl of candy on his desk for his child patients and sings a lullaby to an inconsolable toddler recoiling from being given an injection. “Is there anything more beautiful than a man with a voice like an ocean?” Korede asks herself. The little girl “waddles towards him. When she is older, she will remember him as her first love.”

Although Tade feels affection and respect for his head nurse, he quickly forgets her when Ayoola crooks her little finger at him. For Korede’s sister, the doctor is just another man to play with. He sends her orchids. She sends him a text: “I. Really. Prefer. Roses.” “All he wants is a pretty face,” she tells Korede. “That’s all they ever want.” Despite this, Korede keeps looking after her sister, steering her away from social media because she should still be mourning her latest dead beau if she doesn’t want to raise suspicions about how he passed away.

To stop herself from going crazy, Korede confides in Muhtar Yautai, a patient who for months has been in Room 313. Whenever she feels low, Korede enters his room, lifts the chair from beside the table in the corner, sets it down a few inches from his bed and pours her heart out. “I came to talk to him about Ayoola,” she confesses. “But it is Tade whom I cannot seem to get out of my mind. I … I wish. …” Turning to the subject of Ayoola and the men she is killing, she says: “Femi makes three, you know. Three, and they label you a serial killer. … Somewhere, deep down, she must know, right?”

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Muhtar was badly injured in a car accident. He’s been in the hospital for five months, and it helps that he is in a coma. But then he wakes up and begins to remember what Korede has told him. All of a sudden the story takes a different turn.

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“My Sister, the Serial Killer” is a bombshell of a book — sharp, explosive, hilarious. With a deadly aim, Braithwaite lobs jokes, japes and screwball comedy at the reader. Only after you turn the last page do you realize that, as with many brilliant comic writers before her, laughter for Braithwaite is as good for covering up pain as bleach is for masking the smell of blood.